So tonight I had my second issue that warranted a petition in WAR, and just like last time not only was I disappointed, but I felt my time and theirs was entirely wasted. Last time someone in my group had accidentally selected need for sentinel boots, and the CSR said oh...well we can't fix that, please submit a bug report, like that would get fixed. Tonight, I got my basic T4 influence reward on my KOTBS and I accidentally selected the wrong one, I submitted a petition, an hour later I hear back and am told that once again they can not fix this.
I remember in WOW, EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE...the list goes on, when a mistake was made like that; the CSR would not only help correct it, but not in War. Nope the only thing that CSR's seem good for is to ban people, force name changes.....and that's it.
This is a very, very, very.....very poor face that Mythic is putting foreword. They take 3 steps foreword with content, classes and event. Then ruin it with customer service. So...this is a call to all of you. Tell them what you think of this poor performance. It is not an expectable way to do business, and if they are not willing to help people, then don’t give the option to help in the petitions.
I don’t mean to sound brash about it, but it is something that really bothers me. Customer service is king and as it stands I feel betrayed by Mythic. You put your CSR's out front with either the lack of knowledge or just straight ineptness to perform a roll. This would not have happened in the aforementioned games, and I hope this is something that Mythic seriously considers correcting.
Posted by
Enslaver
on
9:17 PM
Posts
14 comments:
I totally agree, I had a similar problem once, and all the CSR could do was tell me to bug report it. It was a minor item, and I forgot all about my anger about it in a few days and didn't send angry feedback.
But I totally agree that it's pretty wtf when the CSR can't even fix a loot roll.
Like I said above this is the first game where you could not contact a CSR and have the issue resolved.
We've gotten issues like the one described resolved on all the occasions it has occurred, so it's not impossible. The more concerning issue seem to be that it seems you need to "meet the right CSR" to actually get the help you require. That I would say is a cause of disconcern.
I can agree with that, there needs to be some set standards for what CSR's are expected to do, and I don't feel it is happening.
While I can't speak to every game on your list, I was a Guide in EQ, and I can pretty much guarantee that I couldn't have fixed this problem. It may have gotten better after I left, but at least the first few years EQ was out you'd be hosed in a similar situation.
I'm not sure why you expect CSRs to fix your mistakes anyway. Issues caused by bugs, sure, fine... But because you hit the wrong button, or someone picked Need when they shouldn't have? CSRs should be there to resolve problems with the game, not play backstop to every "I hit the wrong button" that might occur.
If there is inconsistency in how CSRs respond to this then I agree that should be fixed, but it should be in the opposite direction you seem to think it should be.
Clearly you don’t comprehend the direction I am taking on this. A. I have had issues where it was a bug and CSR's told me I was SOL. B. either way you look at it every modern MMO, aka one that has come out in the last 5 years, CSR's have been more than willing to fix honest mistakes as long as they are within a timely manor.
I understand that you think everyone should be perfect, and I would find it very hard to believe that you don’t make mistakes, but this is a game and people have a right to play it how they choose to, and if they feel that if they make a mistake they should be able to ask for a correction I think it should happen.
Additionally I understand where you are trying to come from, but I do think people deserve second chances.
How is you selecting the wrong reward a bug? How is someone making the wrong selection in a Need/Greed roll a bug? Neither involve the game behaving in any undocumented, unexpected, or unintended manner.
And please spare me the dismissive "you think everyone should be perfect" tripe. It's a straw man at best. I never said people should be perfect - I expect that there will be mistakes. I have made them myself. The difference is that I acknowledge them as MY mistakes, shrug, and move on. That you even describe this as a bug is simply wrong.
The interface for this is about as forgiving as they can be these days. I do wish some of the icons on rewards weren't so identical (especially the basics), but it gives you plenty of opportunity to review your choices. The roll window is also pretty forgiving from a design standpoint (see Fitt's Law).
If you're going to argue that CSR's should be there to handhold players through every possible misclick and poor decision, that's fine - we can argue that. But please don't refer to it as a bug, because it's simply not.
Back on topic, I'm curious which of these mistakes you think a CSR should undo:
1. Out-of-class Need roll because the leader forgot to turn on Need on Use
2. Incorrect purchase at a merchant
3. Refund respec money because I made a mistake and picked the wrong renown ability?
4. Undo an auction house transaction because I overpaid for a vendor-buyable item?
5. Undo an auction house transaction because I selected the wrong row, and bought the more expensive of identical items?
I'll spring my cunning trap after lunch ;)
"And please spare me the dismissive "you think everyone should be perfect" tripe. It's a straw man at best. I never said people should be perfect - I expect that there will be mistakes. I have made them myself. The difference is that I acknowledge them as MY mistakes, shrug, and move on. That you even describe this as a bug is simply wrong."
First, I have moved on, I was making an observation of what Mythic CSR's do and it was further confirmed by another poster.
"How is you selecting the wrong reward a bug? How is someone making the wrong selection in a Need/Greed roll a bug? Neither involve the game behaving in any undocumented, unexpected, or unintended manner."
No where did I say that me selecting the wrong influence reward was a bud, in fact I stated that I had issues in the past that where bugs, when I wrote the article I was referring to two specific instances where CSR's where of no help what so ever.
"If you're going to argue that CSR's should be there to handhold players through every possible misclick and poor decision, that's fine - we can argue that. But please don't refer to it as a bug, because it's simply not."
This is just straight and blatant disregard to what is written. No where did I claim this and the fact that you are saying I did tells me you did not comprehend what written.
"1. Out-of-class Need roll because the leader forgot to turn on Need on Use"
Is the only thing that I would consider worthy of a CSR contact, and I would say that there would be exceptions on that.
Now for my end, you are arguing this for the sake of arguing it. If you with to continue you need to post with a user name so I know who to refer to you as. Hiding behind your anonymous tag just shows cowardice.
Now to the root of this, here are other items that I have gotten poor responses from CSR's for:
Won Bloodlord gantlets and they did not show up in my inventory: response you are sol
Won DP shield and it also did not show up in my inventory b/c a group member DC'ed before the loot was distributed: response you are sol
Chest in Sigmars bugged and would not dole out items: response from CSR sorry nothing we can do please submit a bug report.
Need I keep going? I am sorry that you are cynical and think that everything should always be perfect; because that is the stance you have taken on this issue. Fact is people make mistakes, and the game has errors and CSR's should be there to help not give you a canned message.
"We've gotten issues like the one described resolved on all the occasions it has occurred, so it's not impossible. The more concerning issue seem to be that it seems you need to "meet the right CSR" to actually get the help you require. That I would say is a cause of disconcern." By Lesildur above sums a lot of it up
There is a clear difference in what each CSR will and will not do and that is an issue. I don’t think that every little thing should be fixed for people, but I do think that there are some that should be and I have highlighted many of them. I apologize that you worked as a guide and clearly had a bad experience with it because that is the impression that I am getting, but this is how I feel on the subject and if you don’t like it I am sorry.
No, you didn't just move on. You came to a decently well-trafficked blog and posted a rant about how horrible Mythic's CS is, and how bad all this looks, and how unreasonable it all is.
I'm not hiding behind an anonymous. I don't care to register anywhere, and any name I gave would be equally "hiding", so I stay lazy and do it anon. Talk about an irrelevant attack.
Apologies for misreading your claims that they were bugs - including the standard "file a bug report" gave the impression that you considered it a bug. My bad on that one.
But your later issues are all bugs, and should be fixed. There's a very big difference between a CSR helping resolve a bug (which they should do) and correcting your mistakes (which I don't feel they should do). I've said very clearly, repeatedly, that I don't expect people to be perfect - I simply expect them to live with the actions they choose.
This has nothing to do with my experience as a guide - I mentioned it solely to illustrate that your "everyone else would fix this!" was at least partially wrong. Your claim to WoW's fixing is not entirely correct, either. A friend of mine left WoW after losing multiple bank bags in a known bug, which the CSR wouldn't/couldn't do anything about.
It has to do with the sense of entitlement players in MMOs are developing. While I don't exactly long for the pain-filled days of EQ, this feeling which players have developed that they should be able to undo any action on a whim is getting out of hand. It started with respec-at-will becoming a near-universal freebie, and now we're all the way up to "I pressed the wrong button, please fix it for me and if you don't then your customer support sucks?" Bleargh. What's this going to me for the future, as BioWare tries to make morality decisions that have permanent impact to your character?? If people get this up in arms over CSR not fixing minor mis-clicks, I pity the Old Republic's reps.
So, why do you think none of the other situations presented deserve CSR correction, but yours do? All involve players making valid choices within the interface which turn out to be wrong, and cost the player something. Why do yours deserve to be fixed when the others don't? If you really do want consistency, then you have to be able to draw a pretty sharp line in the sand over what the CSRs do and don't fix.
Finally, there's no need to apologize for your position, or my view of it (however insincere the apology was). We have different views, I'm simply disagreeing and debating the pros and cons of those views.
"We have different views; I'm simply disagreeing and debating the pros and cons of those views."
I will give you that sir; at least you are presenting a well articulated response. I was going to just move on but I thought I owed you as a reader a response to your last question.
1. Out-of-class Need roll because the leader forgot to turn on Need on Use
This one is hit or miss in my book. It is one thing to be in say an all guild group and there is a legitimate mistake and it is another when it is a pug and people just need b/c they can.
2. Incorrect purchase at a merchant
You can sell it back to the merchant
3. Refund respec money because I made a mistake and picked the wrong renown ability?
Clear warning messages before you are allowed to respec notify you of this.
4. Undo an auction house transaction because I overpaid for a vendor-buyable item?
Again you can still resell the item
5. Undo an auction house transaction because I selected the wrong row, and bought the more expensive of identical items?
Same as above you can resell and recoup.
I think the key difference in all that you listed minus #1 is that all of them involve financial transactions that can be self rectified and provide additional warning before purchasing. Beyond that you have an option out of them.
In the situation of #1 and I will generally lump my above situations here, they can not be undone by the player. For instance the selection of an influence reward. No matter what you do you will always have that item selected. Or in the case where the item you won never lands in your bag. I think that is the clear line that you are asking for.
I do understand where you are coming from and I also understand that CSR's deal with a lot, well a shit load of BS on a day in and day out basis, this is a filter for that, but if that is the stance they wish to take there needs to be a better listing of issues that will and will not be handled.
"You can sell it back to the merchant"
In various forms for the other answers this is true, but the resell cost is dramatically less than what you paid for it. Hence, you lose 90% of the item. This is kinda like telling the guy who lost that Sentinel boots that you'll give them a Rank 11 boots as compensation.
"Clear warning messages before you are allowed to respec notify you of this."
True, but that's at the point where you're correcting the problem, not when you're making the mistake.
You make a distinction on things that can be undone by the player, but your examples all apply a cost (potentially large) to the player. In the case of your influence reward, I could tell you that you can undo it - many chapters have similar PQs, you'd just have to find a different one to get what you want. Our poor shoeless friend just has to run things again until he gets the Sentinel Boots he wanted. Each situation can be corrected by the player at a cost - for some it will be gold, others time. Your line seems to be drawn based on your perceived value and cost. If the Sentinel Boots had been a green seed, nobody would have cared about an accidental need - but because it was perceived high value, you do. You don't mind losing 90% of the cost of what you misbought, but you don't want to have to do another PQ block/instance run until you can correct the ones identified - your perception of the costs are different.
And there's the core of the problem. If you truly want consistency, there are really only two places to draw the line: Do whatever a player asks, or fix problems caused by true bugs in the game. Anything else becomes highly subjective on the part of the CSR, because it will include perceived impact and cost.
And I understand if you want to move on, but I find this rather interesting :) I'm an interface/usability expert in the real world, so it makes it professionally interesting to me from that side as I ponder ways to make an interface where this sort of thing doesn't happen. Unfortunately I have none - I think the interface is about as good at stopping you from making mistakes as it can be, which is part of why I think bagging on the CSRs for your mistakes is inappropriate. If there were something wrong with the interface - like the keep chest timers - I'd gladly argue that constitutes a bug in the game (technically it would be a 'usability issue', but that's a bug to me).
I can agree that in many instances you have similar things that you can do to self correct the issue. The instances that I can think of off the top of my head though that you can't would be some of the rewards from RVR influence....and really that is about it. All other influence rewards have a comparable item from other zones. So in that respect I agree.
As for the perceived value argument, I personally don’t see value and in all honesty unless it is something that I can't correct. In those cases I try and get it done by other means. Most instances I really don’t mind running a zone over and over, because like you that is where I get my enjoyment, and that is why I pay every month to play.
Beyond that, there are two lines in the sand already. What we know will be fixed, and what CSR's might fix. Without concrete this is how CSR's should act/do neither of us can say for sure what position they take. We only know based on heresy.
In the end, it was a pleasure having this debate with you on usability/bugs. I still think there is a grey area here, but that is always the case in any situation.
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